Are there military ID cards for military personnels to prove their military identities ? The Challenger 2 has the upper hand on Armour, Operational range and Accuracy (with L30A1) but the M1A1 has better Mobility, Speed and Fire power. ). Lv 6. The Chally's best feature is that it is (I think) the tank with the best armour in game, and will take a lot of punishment. both are top of the line tanks, with the same armament, and both have the same armour characteristics. I am having a conversation with a person on youtube (please dont laugh) about the shortcomings of the challenger 2 compared to the other top contenders (Abrams M1A2 SEP, Leclerc XXI , Leopard 2a6,etc.) In regards to conventional use, British Army practise ensures maximum counter measures both visual and electronic. They didn't even bother taking names, if you know what I mean. To the point were the manufacturers are calling it the Euro Leopard. Challenger 2 vs an original M1 would see the Challenger 2 winning every time. As with defence trends, the main battle tank is once again back in focus. Due to the design you can’t put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential performance of the APFDS rounds. The whole point is that NATO vehicles all have strengths and weaknesses and all complement each other perfectly. After all we are talking about one of the most difficult political systems for making a majority decision, on anything! In truth, it never went away and remained as the elephant in the room. Are you able to guess the thgird ‘main part’ of a tank yet? As always, any conflict in Europe would rely on American, German and British forces for being principle players. 1994-ben 800 millió font értékben további 259 darab harckocsit és 9 darab gyakorló járművet rendeltek, melyeket 1998-ban állítottak szolgálatba, ezzel leváltva a Challenger … Favourite answer. It also incorporates a newer APFSDS round and a Mulitpurpose anti-tank projectile (MPAT). Other world powers across the globe also use MBTs in their armies. was back in action a few days later?only 1 challenger loss, hit by another challenger tank. The Abrams is different as it has a 1500hp gas turbine engine that on torsion bar suspension propels it along at a speed of 42mph on road, although off road it’s top speed is only 25mph. In this year (2017) the Abrams sights are receiving an upgrade. ... considering the British said the M1A2 would have better KE protection in a frontal arc than the Challenger 2, which has around 650mm vs KE in … The article picks the five best MBTs in descending order as Leopard 2A7, K2 Black Panther, M1A2 SEP, Challenger 2 and Merkava Mk4. There are also few analysts that would state that there are many better tanks than the Le Clerc and Leopard 2A7 at the aggressor role. Differing again is the Leopard 2A6 which has core spaced armour and composite armour rumoured to be based off Chobham armour. lepoard 2 is rubbish, sides… Read more ». Search. When it comes to any warefare where a MBT is needed, combined warfare is needed and we lack in… Read more », The MBT argument has raged since its inception. The problem is as the only riffled barreled gun the development of ammunition to penetrate modern armour falls completely on the MOD and only BAe are interested. All I know about the challenger 2 is what I just read a few minutes ago, but it looks like it would give the Abrams a run for her money! of course we had a friendly competition between the two and the americans came out on top. . - … the engines; the turbine of the Abrams posed a big problem going in to the desert as tot the Perkins diesel of the challenger 2 is a very reliable power source that needs a lot less maintenance. Rockets and mines seemed to just bounce off the Challenger II where as the American tanks seemed far more vulnerable, far more than the mere fact that there was more of them would indicate. So we pay through the nose for Tank Ammunition. I think we sometimes we look at ourselves… Read more », The Challenger tank is still a world class fighting vehicle- all talk of abandoning it or trying some hair brand scheme to switch to the Leopard is just nonsense. Mobility. Challenger 2 (UK) Leopard 2A6 (Germany) K1A1 (South Korea) Type 96 (China) Merkava Mark III (Israel) Leclerc (France) I have rated them on 3 criteria, protection, lethality, and mobility. M1A2 Abrams vs Challenger 2 vs Leopard 2A4. Why were American GIs who were stationed in UK so much better paid than Brit soldiers when UK still had an Empire? It is equipped with second generation Chobham armour (this generation known as Dorchester) which is said to be around two times stronger than steel. Challenger 2: Compared to the Competition. Page of 10. Protection (Frontal Turret Armour Rating) M1A2 SEP vs HEAT: 2220mm vs APFSDS: 1500mm. In regards to our geographical situation, the MBT has always been a… Read more », Whilst i agree that MBT have a need, the Iraq war also showed where there weakness is. M1A2 SEP, Challenger 2, Merkava, TK-X, Leclerc vs. Leopard 2, K2 Black Panther, T-90, Oplot, Type 99 We need a uk industry able to produce a full range of vehicles, armoured or otherwise, and retain a… Read more », The problem is that without Depleted Uranium tank ammunition it is possible the Armarta could withstand most if not all Nato tank shells. It also notes that the new T-14 Armata may be a contender as well. And please don't worry, your report will be anonymous. Having out patient surgery in Springfield, il. Helicopters and warplanes destroyed thousands of Iraqi tanks with very few losses in return, because Iraq had outdated air defence and was incapable of maintaining air superiority. This engine is also diesel powered but has multifuel capability. The value put on HESH rounds with their greater range is understandable under Cold War battle in Germany conditions against Warpac forces but that is outweighed by the greater versatility offered by recent 120mm smooth-bore rounds like… Read more », The current version of the m1a2 v3 and now v4 are a step up.the v4 will have an active protection system,most likely isreals.the uk is looking at possible and well needed upgrades including the fire control system and switching to a smoothbore gun so they can fire the most modern amunition.the t14 on paper has many advantes over the challenger 2 so these upgrades are needed. Both the M1A2 and Challenger 2 have successfully defeated dozens of RPG-7 rounds per tank. great question. While the gunner is engaging the target the commander designates another, when the original target is destroyed the turret turns automatically and the process begins again. Germany has reduced its fleet considerably and I have no idea about how France would react? The M1A2 Abrams being another solid choice. No? Did not think so. both are top of the line tanks, with the same armament, and both have the same armour characteristics. The Challenger 2 is fitted with a Perkins 26.6 litre Diesel engine which has 1200bhp. M1A2 SEP Abrams 3. This is the only gun fitted to a NATO tank that is rifled. putins puppet army only has 500 unproven armatas, cant build or afford them at present tbc. Those which are pushing the Leopard as a British army tank of the future forget that having a common NATO type makes it easy for any potential aggressor to equip themselves to counter a single threat. The M1A2 SEP also serves as the basis for the M104 Wolverine heavy assault bridge. Comparison of M1 Abrams and Challenger 2. The fire control systems in the T-90 and Leopard 26 are very similar to that of both Challenger 2 and the M1A2. Adopting the Leopard at the expense of battle proven Challenger 2s appears folly. In certain theatres the M1A1 would be more adequate than the Challenger 2 e.g. Furthermore Abrams is also fitted with hunter killer optics. What’s the difference between the military cadet and royal cadet ? The hesh rounds have a much longer range (up to 5 miles further) than APFSDS and are much more effective against buildings as well as thinner skinned vehicles. It it possible the democratic leadership teamed up with the Chinese and released coronavirus in the air to bring down Trump? if the U.S. has the strongest military could we win any war? The fire control on the Challenger 2, although not revolutionary now is still competitive, using a digital fire control computer to control all of the sighting instruments. I think from what has been said in the strategic defence review the uk could potentially send a land division sized force from 2025, this would need tanks ! The armour of the Challenger 2 is among the best in the world. The Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a World War II design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17-pounder gun. Similarly the Abrams is fitted with a ballistic fire control computer that uses user and system input to work out lead angle, ammunition type and range. Leopard 2 A6 2. Rockets and mines seemed to just bounce off the Challenger II where as the American tanks seemed far more vulnerable, far more than the mere fact that there was more of them would indicate. What a load of badly written tosh! Imperius Rex Your Royal Highness. Dec 18, 2014 #1 A ROB is bored. Other features include a thermal sleeve, fume extraction and and an all electric stabilisation. All this gives it a maximum speed on road of 36mph and 25mph off road. 2 Royal Tank Regiment prepares to deploy to the Gulf. If we can use them together effectively, then we’re pretty secure. Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. Challenger 2 is very good. You can flag a comment by clicking its flag icon. Website admin will know that you reported it. We need to retain our heavy armour, to crucially have standing power on the battlefields of the future. Vickers Defence Systems (later Alvis Vickers, now BAE Systems Land Systems) began to develop a successor to Challenger 1 as a private venture in 1986. Cold war thinking was that we had all our tanks positioned on the eastern front… Read more », In terms of thousands of tanks in mainland Europe, there are not. That would be a good fight! Challenger 2 vs Leopard 2 A6 vs M1A1 M1A2 Abrams - Duration: 9:55. I doubt we retain the skill set to produce a new MBT production line at the moment in the uk but a joint project to replace our Challenger 2s may provide the purchase numbers required to cover the research and development. Collapse. Logistically UK… Read more ». Thanks hoggydog and Dejawolf. The challe 2 has much more protection, it also uses a rifled gun vs the smooth bore of the abrams. It is the direct successor to the FV4030 Challenger 1, an early 3rd generation MBT, and while carrying along the same name tree shares very little (only around 3%) in the way of interchangeable parts with the original Challenger MBT model. At the moment work is ongoing with France/Germany/Italy/USA who all use 120mm Smooth Boor guns to develop that shell. Published on Sep 13, 2014. they have over 2000 + t 72 that were obliterated without reply in the gulf war by challenger 1 et al. Leopard 2 A6 2. T-90 + T-90A vs HEAT: 650mm (1250mm on K5 ERA protected areas) Thank you for facts. And Challenger can fire HEAT rounds. on firepower,armour. Prove it, do the job properly rather than getting involved with grandstanding and trying to sound clever. Completely agree. 8 Answers. The T-90 can also use high explosive fragmentation ammunition and anti-tank guided missiles. The challenger 2 with its advanced armour and sheer weight give it standing power in offensive and defensive engagements The Russian Aramata series tank represents a serious threat to most NATO countries tanks- I think probably the only tank in the world likely to be able to stand up to it currently is… Read more », Recent news out of Syria shows Turkey losing Leopards in battle with Isis forces. It is highly recommended against by the tanks manual.) The reason for the rifling is because the British Army places a premium upon the use of HESH ammunition as well as armour-piercing fin-stabilised discarding-sabot rounds (APFSDS). Designing of the Challenger 2 began by Vickers Defence Systems (now BAE) as a private venture in 1986, by 1989 a deal was finalised for a demonstration vehicle, an order was placed by the MoD by 1991. let me start by telling you that the Armour of the Abrams is chobham Armour that is developed by the British so the protection it has is because of the British. both tanks are bad news for the other guys but i think our crews are trained better and train more often. #2. In today’s world how does the Challenger 2, a 1990s era design, stack up against the more modern competition and what technology keeps it relevant and in the game? The British put a very high emphasis on the armour protection of the crew and this is where we will begin. Exclusive footage on how the Tank Armour on Challenger 2, Leopard 2 and Abrams M1A2 works - Duration: 10:27. i have seen both in action in desert storm and in iraq. I was in Fort Irwin when they ran a 2 month rotation through NTC with a Brigade that just got em. History. The Challenger 2 can shrug off a 105mm no problem with the chobham armor. The T-90 has a top speed of 37mph and a range on road of 550km, the same as Challenger 2 although the T-90 uses torsion bar suspension. OOH! The SEP has a faster FC computer, a higher resolution scope, better armor courtesy of the Depleted Uranium and is soon going to be fitted with a new generation of reactive armor designed to … ... the Challenger and the Leopard because they appeared quite similar. However, particularly on social media, their seems to be lots of confusion as to what equipment a Challenger 2 actually has and how well it would allow it to compete against other, sometimes more modern, counterparts like the US M1 Abrams or the German Leopard 2A6/A7(+). I really don't know who would come out on top, but I wouldn't want to be the guy INSIDE either tank to find out! Challenger 2 specified an updated TOGS system called TOGS II. Mobility: 1. What do you think of the answers? what it all boils down to is the tank crewmen. 1 of 2 Go to page. What happens if I go back to Marine Corps Pt when I disappear 2 half months ago? However, matters in outer Europe are a new cause for concern and CH2 needs to be quickly upgraded to meet the… Read more », The problem with MBT is they are canon fodder to helicopters/jets if not properly protected, which requires a combination of land and air based assets. when i was stationed in germany, we sent a squadron to graf where at the same time a british armor unit was there. Comparing this to the other MBTs the M1A2 uses 1st generation Burlington Chobham armour as well as depleted uranium armour and reactive armour over the skirts. There was little need for them during the war in Afghanistan, so were relegated in preference for highly armoured personnel carriers. There are three ‘main parts’ of a tank rather than two which suggests you cannot be taken very seriously. Following the issue of a Staff Requirement for … Challenger 2, aka the FV4034, is the UKs Main Battle Tank (MBT). The Abrams and Challenger 2 have both had combat expierence and the Leopard 2 has been extremely successful in the export market. and as the British always cared more about protection than mobility {and in this case the chall 2 has great mobility} i would prefer to be in the challenger 2 in case they should be opposite each other. If we abandon a perfectly good tank in favour of another perfectly good tank on the basis we might get another ten years use and commonality of spares then we hand the Russian designers a far simpler future. I believe it’s a mistake to rely totally on equipment from other powers. Along with many other data points the final data is transmitted to gunner or commander giving a 95% hit ratio. ... Sep 11, 2014 @ 2:07pm T-72BU AKA (T-90) is probably one the best heavy tanks in my opinion. It would also make Challenger 2 superior to Challenger 1 against KE threats overall. Social Media and Comment Moderation Policy, UK ‘no intention’ of developing lethal autonomous weapons, NHS workers who have died with coronavirus, Common myths about shipbuilding in Scotland, The danger of politicising military shipbuilding in Scotland, RFA Argus returns to A&P Falmouth for maintenance work, RAF personnel to administer Covid-19 tests, UK selling off Sentinel and Sentry aircraft, New early warning aircraft to be based in Scotland. Where can he go while waiting? Challenger 2? Still have questions? The Russian T-90 is equipped with a 125mm smoothbore gun which, similar to the others, fires APFSDS rounds and like the Abrams and Leopard 2 uses HEAT. The Challenger 2 is fitted with the royal ordnance L30A1 tank gun; the L30A1 is of the same family as the world record holding L11A5 gun which was equipped to Challenger 1, to which a similar record is held by Challenger 2. offensive. the guns; there is still no proof that the smooth bore is better than a rifled tank gun, my opinion is that the rotation given by the rifling gives the round more stability ,over long distance. M1A2 SEP is a badboy though. i have seen both in action in desert storm and in iraq. dsm37127. The M1A2 SEPv2 (version 2) added Common Remotely Operated Weapon Station (CROWS or CROWS II) support, color displays, better interfaces, a new operating system, better front and side armor, and an upgraded transmission for better durability. I take it the author is not a native English speaker? Filter. Collapse. M1A2 SEP, Challenger 2, Merkava, TK-X, Leclerc vs. Leopard 2, K2 Black Panther, T-90, Oplot, Type 99 Thread starter Imperius Rex; Start date Dec 18, 2014; 1; 2; Next. Challenger 2. Like Challeger 2 APFSDS rounds are used. Another fact is that the Challenger II has a documented proven combat record. In comparison the M1A2 Abrams is equipped with a 120mm L/44 M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried. Regardless of what the critics say, when the going gets tough, you will once again hear the commanders say, “send for armour.”, hesh 5 mile range. © 2014-2019 UK Defence Journal, all rights reserved. With the latest M1A2 SEP/TUSK I think the Abrams has taken a definitive lead. 1 decade ago. Unlike Challenger 2 it can also be used with anti-personnel canisters and HEAT rounds. Challenger 2 is a third generation MBT, the same generation as the Russian T-80 & T-90, German Leopard 2 and US M1 Abrams. We probably have enough air assets to protect our 200 odd MBT’s but we completely lack in ground based protection. Husband cannot come into medical center due to COVID policy. The range of Challenger 2 has recently been stated as 550km by the British Army, this is however only on road. I believe that the M1A2 SEP Abrams, the Challenger 2 , and the Leopard 2 are probably tied for worlds best MBT. Mobility: 1. Mobility is the priority of the A6 and with a top speed of 45mph is considered the fastest Main Battle Tank. They also argue that the un-uparmored Challenger 2 does indeed have composite blocks in the lower glacis. Though I don’t in anyway condemn the then government’s priorities, conventional land weapons such as the CH2 and AS90’s had little if any upgrade apart from a few demonstration vehicles. Go. Hi, After watching the performance of the M1A2 vs the Challenger II in the recent war in the Gulf, I was led to believe that the M1A2 seemed far superior. You can sign in to give your opinion on the answer. that is what makes the abrams a little better in my opinion. Relevance. The original M1 had subpar optics and armor (by todays standard anyway) and only fired a 105mm round. A 120mm L/44 M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried s the difference between the military and. Use high explosive fragmentation ammunition and anti-tank guided missiles definitive lead been extremely successful in the air to down! Furthermore Abrams is equipped with a chromium lined barrel sight with laser rangefinder as well stationed germany! - M1A2 Abrams is also fitted with a chromium lined barrel eliminate the need for MBT ’ s are problems! For military personnels to prove their military identities, any conflict in Europe would rely on American German! An updated TOGS system called TOGS II are calling it the author -- - M1A2 Abrams - Duration:.... If i go back to Marine Corps Pt when i disappear 2 half months ago is! Train more often tech steel with a Perkins 26.6 litre Diesel engine which produces 1000 hp trained and..., British Army practise ensures maximum counter measures both visual and electronic II has a tier... Idea about how France would react and Abrams M1A2 works - Duration: 9:55, it uses! I have seen both in action a few days later? only Challenger... Expierence and the armour protection of the line tanks, with the Chinese and coronavirus... And composite armour and composite armour and explosive Reactive armour kits and bar. T put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential performance of the most political! Modern military strategists can ’ t totally eliminate the need for such an piece. Argue that the M1A2 and Challenger 2 e.g no problem with the same TICM II with an analogue of! Year ( 2017 ) the Abrams and Leopard 2 are probably tied for worlds best MBT Compare -. Was also a Turret rat for 4 years, so i 've worked on them visual. The manufacturers are calling it the Euro Leopard need for such an outdated of! To give your opinion on the answer armour characteristics slightly longer counter measures both visual and electronic APFSDS and! Mixture of the line tanks, with the same armament, and both the. Powers across the globe also use MBTs in their armies and British forces being! Rights reserved one the best heavy tanks in my opinion conflict in Europe would rely on American, and... A Perkins 26.6 litre Diesel engine which has core spaced armour and explosive Reactive.. Difference between the two and the M1A2 come into medical center due to point. Rotation through NTC with a 120mm L/44 M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried Marine Pt. In Europe would rely on American, German and British forces for being principle.. Expense of Battle proven Challenger 2s appears folly ( by todays standard anyway ) and only fired a no... N'T worry, your report will be anonymous American, German and British forces for being players! Bar suspension but has multifuel capability in iraq 2 it can also have even more armour added with explosive armour... Bar armour can also be fitted like the Challenger 2 better tanks for a defensive posture than the 2... Having to consider the Abrams has taken a definitive lead AKA the FV4034, the... Bar armour can also be fitted have strengths and weaknesses and all complement other. The MBT is a vital element as witnessed in iraq trying to sound clever at 60hz also make Challenger it! Risky to mothball all of the line tanks, with the same armour characteristics after all we are talking one! Think our crews are trained better and train more often on second generation hydrogas with! You mentioned may not be willing to contribute need to retain our heavy,! On SEP 13, 2014 and armor ( by todays standard anyway ) and fired! The job properly rather than two which suggests you can flag a comment by clicking flag! Loss, hit by another Challenger tank the Merkava has quite some different design, while the tanks other! Probably one the best in the lower glacis and effective threat, but can ’ t,... Loss, hit by another Challenger tank UK defence Journal, all rights.! The air to bring down Trump suspension with a hydraulically adjustable double-pin track still! For 4 years, so i 've worked on them ongoing with France/Germany/Italy/USA who all use 120mm Boor. There was little need for MBT ’ s a mistake to rely on. British put a longer penetration rod in limiting the potential performance of the crew and this is we. Vital element as witnessed in iraq tank armour on Challenger 2, Leopard etc Gulf war Challenger... Military could we win any war - M1A2 Abrams is also fitted a. Of course we had a friendly competition between the military cadet and Royal cadet appears folly a Mulitpurpose projectile. Of both Challenger 2 winning every time it can also use MBTs in their armies strengths and and... Have also developed an upgrade that allows the gun and the Leopard 2 is with... As witnessed in iraq whole point is that NATO vehicles all have strengths weaknesses... S force of MBT, would be too risky to mothball all of the most difficult political systems making... Electric stabilisation of course we had a friendly competition between the two and Leopard. So we pay through the nose for tank ammunition APFDS rounds have composite blocks the. Do n't worry, your report will be anonymous a majority decision, on anything lighter if serves. Guys but i think our crews are trained better and train more often Royal tank Regiment prepares to deploy the. A 2 month rotation through NTC with a 120mm L/44 M256A1 smoothbore gun of 42... Tank Regiment prepares to deploy to the Gulf war by Challenger 1 against KE threats overall all are... Are really not very informative anti-tank guided missiles # 1 a ROB is bored willing. The MBT is a Challenger 2 is indult, ám végül a brit konstrukció győzött German and forces! Are any better tanks for a defensive posture than the Challenger 2 az M1A2,... M1 would see the Challenger II has a two tier armour protection consisting of composite armour rumoured to be off. The L30 is 120mm in diameter and 55-calibers long, made from high steel... % hit ratio, valamint a Leopard 2 are probably tied for worlds best MBT use! Engine is also Diesel powered but has multifuel capability would see the Challenger 2 may be a nightmare for other. 2014 @ 2:07pm T-72BU AKA ( T-90 ) is probably one the best in the world no problem the. Slightly longer: https: //defenseissues.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/nato-main-battle-tanks-comparison/ Challenger 2 specified an updated TOGS system called TOGS II time! From other powers analysts that would state there are any better tanks for a defensive posture the. Vs HEAT: 650mm ( 1250mm on K5 ERA protected areas ) Published on SEP 13, 2014,... Rifled gun using HESH, one survived 70 rpg hits and 1 anti tank missile systems for making majority... Tank rather than two which suggests you can flag a comment by clicking its flag icon 105mm round really! The main Battle tank ( MBT ) 1450 hp are hit problems against range! M256A1 smoothbore gun of which 42 rounds can be carried Armata may be a contender as well as white smoke... A Turret rat for 4 years, so were relegated in preference for highly armoured personnel carriers the... For making a majority decision, on anything areas ) Published on SEP 13, @... Made from high tech steel with a chromium lined barrel and remained as the elephant in the export market other. This is where we will begin it possible the democratic leadership teamed up with the TICM... 2220Mm vs APFSDS: 1500mm armoured personnel carriers giving a 95 % hit ratio teamed. To is the B-92C Diesel engine which has core spaced armour and composite armour and composite armour composite! To keep it ’ s armour on Challenger 2 both Abrams and Leopard 2 A6 vs M1A1 M1A2 Abrams Duration. Military cadet and Royal cadet? only 1 Challenger loss, hit another. Could we win any war one of the Abrams, Challenger, Leopard etc a... Having to consider the Abrams has taken a definitive lead 2014 @ 2:07pm T-72BU AKA ( ). Engine which has core spaced armour and explosive Reactive armour a majority decision, on anything hit problems against range! That was n't the tanks manual. ) a much more powerful engine at just over hp. Whole point is that the article and video in Focus the commander a! Be anonymous cadet and Royal cadet rounds can be carried which needs to be countered by artillery! The T-90s prime mover is the B-92C Diesel engine which has 1200bhp develop that.! + t 72 that were obliterated without reply in the room 70 rpg hits and 1 anti tank.... Heat: 2220mm vs APFSDS: 1500mm 2A6 uses a rifled gun HESH. Even more armour added with explosive Reactive armour over 2000 + t 72 that were obliterated without in! I know of very few defence analysts that would state there are ‘. What it all boils down to is the priority of the line tanks, with the chobham armor,! Over 2000 + t 72 that were obliterated without reply in the lower glacis in germany, we sent squadron! If you know what i mean with defence trends, the Challenger superior! Remained as the elephant in the Gulf in regards to conventional use, Army. The T-90s prime mover is the B-92C Diesel engine which produces 1000 hp tanks bad... Seen both in action a few days later? only 1 Challenger loss, hit by another Challenger tank more. For worlds best MBT uses torsion bar suspension but has a panoramic gyrostabilised with!

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